Biblical Leadership: Function vs Title | Let's Talk Biblical

If you love talking about the Bible as much as I do, then I think you'll really enjoy this show. Welcome to Let's Talk Biblical, the podcast where we dig deep into the heart of scripture, explore timeless truths, and have real conversations about what the Bible says and how it applies to us. My name is Lex, and I want to thank you for joining me on today's episode. So, grab your Bible, get comfortable, and let's talk biblical. All right. Hey guys. Uh, sorry about that. I was a little bit late tonight. Um, I had some things I was trying to finish up real quick and time got away from me. So, all right. Tonight we are going to be talking about the roles and functions uh in of leadership within the church within the body of Christ. And so what what is biblical leadership? What does biblical leadership look like? Um and we're going to talk about uh the five-fold ministry. We're going to talk about elders and deacons and uh just all sorts of things about leadership. And first off, I want to start off with um servantthood and how we're supposed to be servants and how Yeshua has called us to serve. Um but in in the world we live in today uh so many people have this idea that um you know someone who is charismatic, someone who is popular, someone who is has influence um you know they think celebrities and uh you know musicians and and actors and singers and athletes and people like that. people of influence um people who are uh you know social media uh social media influencers and whatnot they think that those people are the ones who are are qualified to lead and that's not always the case. Um, you know, also we have this idea that leadership is about titles and authority and position and recognition and that's not what we see in the Bible either. Um, so let's let's go ahead and dig into the scriptures and see what the Bible says uh about the kind of leaders that God is looking for. And we're going to start in Matthew uh chapter 20. And let's start at verse 25. But Yeshua called them to himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them." Okay, so this um this is the uh the way that the world thinks about authority, right? It's it's about lording over. It's about having authority and power and um putting people under you, you know, pushing people down while you lift yourself up. And that's not the way Yeshua says uh leadership should work. And so then we go on. It says, "Yet it shall not be so among you. But whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant." Okay? And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave. Just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. Okay, so here we see that Yeshua gave himself as the example of how to lead through service, how how to be a servant. And we're to follow his example. He says, if you want to be great, then you need to be a servant. And if you want to be uh the first, you know, the the greatest, the the head of all, you need to be a slave. And this just seems backwards to to our our the worldly way of thinking. Uh but if you think about it, every every good leader in scripture was first a servant. They learned how to serve. And by learning how to serve, then they learned how to lead. And so for example, Moses, Moses uh was first a servant before he was a leader. Okay? Um he was um you know, he he was well he grew up in in Pharaoh's home, but he wasn't like the leader of Pharaoh's home. He saw his family serving. Uh you know, then there was this fight and struggle with an Egyptian because he was fighting for his his fellow Hebrew. And then he fled and he went out and he became a shepherd and he served as a shepherd and he worked and he labored and he he took care of the sheep for years. And um during that time of service as a shepherd, he learned how to how to serve, but he also learned how to lead. And by leading sheep, he learned how to lead people. And then we have um Joseph Joseph was sold into slavery by his brothers. He um he he worked for potterer and um then he went to prison and he went through all kinds of stuff. And this this mess that he went through was to train him up to be a leader. And and after he served and I've got a bug flying in my around my face. after he served um in Egypt for all those years and was a servant and a slave for all that time, then he was able to eventually he was exalted to the second highest position in Egypt, second only to Pharaoh. But he was able to do that because God took him through the servant process. He became a servant first so that he could know how to lead. um David, King David, you know, he was considered the greatest king that Israel ever had. He served first. He served as a shepherd boy and then he also served he served Saul in Saul's palace. Even when Saul was trying to kill him and hunt him and and destroy him, David served Saul and was faithful to Saul and um didn't try to take authority for himself. H David didn't try to take authority from Paul. Uh he waited for God to to give him the power and authority. David had uh had the opportunity to take Saul's life more than once. And David uh did not take Saul's life. Instead, he said, um, you know, far far be it from me, you know, who am I to to lay hand on the, uh, anoint the on God's anointed. And so, David was humble and he was a servant. He served, uh, King Saul for all this time. Um, even even the apostles uh, they were before they were apostles, they were disciples and in their disciplehip, they were serving Yeshua. Uh many of them had other ways that they served before. Um and they all their training ground was through service. Um and so the biblical model for leadership has with humility. It's about humbling yourself and to serve and to um so learning how to submit to authority so that you can better lead. I think that's that's one of the biggest keys is if you have to learn how to submit to authority before God can use you to lead others before God can trust you with authority. He needs to know that you are submitted to authority. And I think that's the biggest thing we've got to understand about leadership according to God is if you want to lead, you have to learn how to submit to authority. You have to learn how to serve. And by submitting to authority, we learn how to uh appropriately wield authority so that we're not um we're not abusive in it. Um and it's it's not about exaltation. Having leadership and authority in in the in the church, in the body of Christ, is not about exalting yourself. It's not about becoming greater and and becoming somebody special. Um, it's about, um, helping others. It's about building up the body. It's about strengthening and encouraging the body. It's about, um, drawing others closer to Yeshua. Um, it's has nothing to do with you becoming somebody special, you becoming somebody important, you becoming somebody who people look up to or admire or whatever. That's not what matters. Um so uh I think we want to start with Yeshua as the ultimate servant. Um and you know he just said that uh the son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. Okay. So here we see Yeshua uh the whole reason he came to earth was to serve and to give his life. He humbled himself. He was he was in heaven. He was exalted with God. He he the the father and the son share glory. And we see this in scripture that that he you know when he prayed he said Lord excuse me father restore to me the glory that I once had with you before the world was. And so before he before he he dies on the cross, he prays this prayer that he's he's asking to have his glory restored to him because for the time he was on earth, his glory was not given to him. He came as a servant. He came humble. He came um lowly and in him him coming as a man, God incarnate, God coming as a man, he humbled himself and took on flesh and became one of us. And that's a great example to us that we are to to humble oursel for the people and not to try to exalt ourselves before the people, not to try to make ourselves seem like we're somebody special, but to humble ourselves. And uh he came to serve. He he came to give to give what he had. He he didn't come to receive. He came to serve. He didn't come to see what he could get from from us. He came to give and what what can he give to us? Um and you see his whole ministry he's going he's teaching he's healing. He's casting out demons. He's he's serving people. He's he's helping people. He's doing what's needed. Um loving those who are uh unloved, having compassion on those who need compassion. Um you know he helping the poor, helping the sick, helping the needy. Um he came to serve and then ultimately he gave his life as a ransom. He died on the cross for our sins. He died for us so that we could live. He died so we could live. And so this self-sacrificing life is what we are supposed to imitate. And so as leaders, we are supposed to imitate Yeshua. And as all believers, we're supposed to imitate Yeshua. but especially as leaders. Um we see he he washed the disciples feet. Um he healed the sick. He made uh he made time for kids. That was something uh that that's kind of unheard of for people in leadership. um someone who you know you you look at um oh people who are who are very uh you know CEOs and and businessmen people who are in charge of of running companies and stuff they don't they don't make time for children um they just make time for important people but Yeshua showed us that we need to make time for children and he you know he he knelt down with the kids and he he hugged them and and taught them and talked talk to them and spend time with them. And that's important. We need to be people who are willing to spend time with the people who don't who who can't um what's the word? They can't do anything to add to our value. They can't do anything to add to our esteem. They can't do anything to add to our authority. Um you know, because that's what CEOs look for, right? people who run companies, big uh managers and and um you know people who run companies, they look for what can I get from you? How can you help me? Um what can I get out of this relationship? They want to network and connect with people who can help them somehow. And they hobnob with people who are important. And Yeshua says, "Hey, let's let's spend time with the poor. Let's spend time with the widows. Let's spend time with the orphans. Let's spend time with the children. Let's spend time with the needy. Let's spend time with the sick. Let's spend time with those who are in prison. Those people can't add to your value. They can't they can't add to your greatness. Um and that's what we need to learn is is to care for those people who can't do anything for us. Um loving them even when they can't return the favor. Um, it's not about uh networking and and making connections so that they can hook you up with uh opportunities and and things like that. It's it's about caring for those who are in need. And that's that's what we see over and over again through Yeshua's ministry and what we are supposed to do as leaders as well. Um, you know, he he he touched the le the lepers, you know, people that were untouched, people, you know, the the society would shun them and ignore them and not uh even come around them. You know, can you imagine going years and years and years without ever being touched by another human? Um, that's that's got to be extremely lonely. And I'm sure that um they were they were so surprised when Yeshua touched them. And I I can imagine how much um gratitude they had for that touch because his touch healed them. And but not only did it healed them, but it was it was a touch of compassion, touch of love, touch of kindness that they needed. Um, so, uh, true leadership in the kingdom is not about climbing a ladder. It's not about moving up. It's not about exalting yourself. It's not about pushing other people down. It's not about lifting yourself up. Okay? That is not what leadership in the Bible looks like. That's not what Christian leadership should be about. That's not what biblical leadership is. It's not about pushing people down or climbing up. It's about getting on your knees. It's about humbling yourself. It's about uh getting your hands dirty and doing the work, the service, the labor. Um you know that it's ministry is service. And if you don't know how to serve, then you're not you're not cut off from ministry. Um Yeshua Yeshua, he he uh he really turned leadership upside down. The way the world thinks about leadership, he flipped it upside on his head. Um and he defined greatness as being willing to serve. And so that's something we have to uh always keep in mind that we are to be servants. And you know, we you can look back throughout the scriptures at at places where people are called the servant of the Lord. Um uh the apostles refer to themselves as bondervants of Jesus Christ. Um there's all kinds of things throughout the Bible about serving and you know we are called to be faithful servants and so um all of these things are significant and important. Um, so let's go ahead and move on. Now that we've kind of um talked about being a servant, I want to look at the five-fold ministry. So, we're going to jump over to Ephesians and chapter 4 and we're going to start in verse 11. All right. Uh Ephesians 4:11 says, "And he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers." Okay. Well, let me let me pause that for a second. Yeshua is talking about Yeshua gave these uh Yeshua gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors, some teachers. So Yeshua is giving people as leaders to as a gift to the church. Okay. So I think we first need to realize that that this is leadership in the church is a gift from Yeshua to the church. Leadership in the church is a gift from Yeshua to his body. Okay? And let's see why why this is a gift. It's for the equipping of the saints, for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. Okay. So he gives us leadership in the church so that we can be brought up correctly, so we can be edified, so we can be uh equipped. um so that we can be strengthened till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of God to a perfect man to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. that we should no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the tricker of man and the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but speaking of the truth in love may grow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ, from whom the whole body joined and knit together by what every joint uh by what every joint supplies according to the effective working by which every part does its share. causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Okay. Um so he gives these uh apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers and pastors for the benefit of the church. They are gift to the church for the building up of the church for the strengthening of the church um for the unity of the church. and for teaching sound doctrine. Um, and so these these are in place for a reason. And there's so many the reason I want to bring this up is because in this movement, um, there are so many people who are teaching, which is ironic, they're teaching that we don't need leaders. They're teaching that we don't need pastors and we don't need teachers. They're teaching that we don't need teachers. it it doesn't even make sense because they're teaching, showing us that we need to be taught. Obviously, they think they need to teach us. Um, so who are they to say that we don't need teachers if they are even trying to be a teacher? Um, it doesn't make sense. And so when you hear things like that, um, it it should cause you to kind of rub your head and say, "Well, wait a minute. If if you're teaching me, but you say I don't need a teacher, then you're saying I don't need you. So, why are you here? Um, it's kind of a uh self-defeating thought really. Um, but Yeshua says we need teachers. Yeshua says we need pastors. Yeshua says we need evangelists. Yeshua says we need uh prophets and and apostles as well. And so, if if Yeshua thinks we need these things, then who are we to say we don't? Who are we to say those things are archaic or done away with? those things are no longer necessary. Um but uh each of these roles has a function and I want to I want to dive into the function. Um so apostles are sent ones. They are the ones who are sent to establish, build and govern. Um they lay the foundation. Um and they're they're spiritual pioneers. Okay, we're going to dig in a little deeper in a minute, but I want to give a brief overview. Um, prophets, prophets are those who speak the word of God with boldness, calling the church to repentance. Um, and and this is something a lot of people don't understand about prophets. They think a prophet is just a future teller, a seer of future events. And that's that's not the majority. Uh the majority of prophets we see in scripture are people who are calling God's people to repent. They're calling for repentance. They're not they're not necessarily predicting the future. Um and oftentimes they're calling for repentance um in order to prevent something from happening in the future. Like for example, Jonah. Jonah was sent to Nineveh to preach repentance and uh to tell them that God was going to destroy the city and after his preaching they all repented and then God didn't destroy the city because they repented. Um but if they had not repented then God would have destroyed the city. So it's kind of like a if you don't do this God's going to do that um scenario. And often times that's what prophecy ends up looking like is if you don't repent, if you don't change your ways, God will do this. Um so like another example, Nebuchadnezzar, King Nebuchadnezzar, um he did not listen to the prophets and he did not um repent and God punished him. Okay? And we have numerous examples in scripture of that kind of thing happening as well. Uh Pharaoh is another great example. Excuse me, I am yawning a lot tonight for some reason. Um Pharaoh's another great example. So Moses is a prophet. Moses comes to Pharaoh. He says, "Let God says, "Let my people go." Pharaoh says, "I'm not going to let the people go." So God sends a plague. Moses comes back, says, "Let my people go or else I'll send another plague." And Pharaoh says, "Nope, I'm not going to let the people go." So God sends another plague. And this continues over and over and over and over and over. And uh Pharaoh really never learned his lesson. Even after the death plague, uh Pharaoh told Moses to get out. Take take the people and get out. But then he started chasing Moses shortly after they left. He grabbed his chariots and army and started chasing him. Obviously, he didn't learn his lesson. And so, that's why he ended up drowning in the Red Sea because he didn't learn his lesson from all the plagues. Moses came as a prophet to to point Pharaoh to repentance and to get Pharaoh to turn from his wicked ways. Um, and if if Pharaoh would have listened and done what Moses had said, uh, he would not have experienced all the plagues and he would not have ended up drowning in the Red Sea. Um, but it's because of his hard heart and his resistance to the word of the prophet um, that he experienced the punishment. And so when God sends um prophets into our midst, we are supposed to listen to them. Uh but it's not necessarily that they are teaching about the future. They don't always predict the future. Often times they're just bringing a word for right now, what's happening right now in this moment, in this world, in this place, in this church, whatever it is. Oftentimes, that is what a prophet is doing. uh most often actually um but they're speaking the word of God and that's that's the point is to bring bringing forth the word of God with boldness and it's for the the the purpose of um correction or encouragement or something like that. Um evangelists, the next one is evangelists. They are uh they're the heralds. They are the ones who are bringing the gospel to new places. Um they are going out and saving the lost. They're going out and finding lost souls and converting them to believers. Um that is what an evangelist does. And then we get to pastors. Uh pastor is also called a shepherd. Okay. Word pastor and the word shepherd are interchangeable is because the pastors are the caregivers. They are the ones who guide and nurture and protect the flock. Okay. They're the ones who have been entrusted as stewards over God's people. And so it's their job to um to care for, watch over, and protect those people. And so they lead um as shepherds. They shepherd the flock. And then we have teachers. Teachers are those who rightly divide the word of truth. Okay? They are grounded in sound doctrine. They're grounded. They ground the body in sound doctrine. They they bring truth uh sound doctrinal biblical truth to God's people. Okay? And and you may see overlap. You may have pastors who are teachers or you may have pastors who are apostles. You may have apostles who are prophets. You may have uh teachers who are apostles. You know, like you have different crossover. You have uh evangelists who are apostles or you may have evangelists who are pastors. So you have there's crossover and you may have someone who is exhibits multiple of these or even possibly all of these I think at times u but the purpose is to equip the saints to equip the church um for the work of ministry and to build up the body of Christ until we reach the unity of faith and maturity in Messiah. Okay, that's that's what Ephesians says these are for. Okay, so now let's dig a little deeper into these. an apostle. Um, an apostle is a scent one. And you think about when a king was to send uh an emissary, they would send a um someone to go on their behalf and they would take uh a signate ring or they would take a scroll with the the king's name on it or with the king's seal on it or something and and they would come on behalf of the king as ambassadors. That's kind of the the the idea behind an apostle is they are ambassadors. They are sent ones. They are coming in the name of someone else. They're coming in the name of the king. And so as apostles, uh apostles come in the name of Yeshua and they come on his behalf. And they they are pioneers. They they take uh and establish the church in new areas where it has never been established before. Um and they they have a governing uh role. They govern and oversee churches, multiple churches. Um and they provide foundational teaching and insight um and oversight. Okay? So they they bound they they form this foundational teaching and oversight for all of the churches that they establish. um their their their role is a mission type of role. They're missionary in a sense uh because they're taking the gospel to places where it's never been before and they're building churches where there are no churches and they're establishing faith in new places and expanding the kingdom. Okay. Um, and so they are a type they're connected to missionaries in a way, but they're also connected to someone like a denominational uh supervisor where they oversee multiple congregations and they also function as a um a theology professor because they are teaching sound doctrine in all of these congregations. And so they have multiple roles and hats that they would wear. Um, and so we see Paul is a great example of what it means to be an apostle. And so we see he planted churches. He went around traveling different places, planting churches and appointing leaders in those churches. And then he would communicate with them through his letters and teach them doctrine and teach them uh, you know, answer their questions and things like that and help uh, govern those churches. uh even though he was not present there, he laid the doctrinal foundations for those communities and um he appointed leaders. He appointed elders and leaders in those churches uh to serve and to lead those communities and he he communicated with the leaders and he was in charge of the leaders and the leaders were in charge of those communities. Okay. uh apostles carry a governmental type of authority. Um and so they they come with doctrinal correction. They they come to unify churches and have oversight over churches and um they they they they care for and look over the the community of all the churches and they govern them. And so it's kind of a a government oversight type of position as well as missional foundational forming of those churches. Um and so for uh a verse to look at in connection with this is 1 Corinthians chapter 3 and uh let's look at verse 10. according to the grace of God which was given to me as a wise master builder. I have laid the foundation and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. Okay, so here Paul is talking about how he laid the foundation. He's he's the one who is laying the foundation for this community, for this church. And but then someone else steps in. The the elders, the pastors, uh the teachers of that community begin to build on that foundation that Paul laid as an apostle. Um all right. So then we have prophets. Prophets function as a mouthpiece for God. Um they're one who speak forth is is really what the word uh prophet means is one who speaks forth the words of God. And so prophets reveal the heart and the will of God. Okay, this um this is important. It's not again it's not about fortuneelling. It's not about future telling. It's not about seers and and and seeing the future before it happens. That's not what prophecy is really about. Prophecy is about revealing God's heart to his people. Um they call uh the body to repentance. They call the body to um forgiveness. They call the body to holiness. Um they issue warnings and corrections. They issue direction and guidance. Um and they they confirm God's plans and God's purposes in the lives of the of the people of the community. They speak truth and edify and convict. Um, prophets are here to strengthen and encourage and comfort uh while also confronting sin. And this is we see this in 1 Corinthians 14 and verse three. according to the grace of God which was given to me as a wise master build. Oh, wait. Uh, that's there it is. Okay. Sorry, I didn't click the button. Uh, 1 Corinthians 14:3. But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. Okay. He who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. So this is what we see uh the prophet is supposed to be doing. They're to be um edifying the church. Edifying means strengthening the church. And so now sometimes those words are hard. Um a word of correction strengthens the church, but it's a hard word. A word of punishment strengthens the church, but it's it's a hard word. Um it's not edification isn't always like a pat on the back. It's not always a you're doing a great job. Edification is doing what is necessary to strengthen the body. Um exhortation is more about um speaking words that that um encourage and build up. Um but edification is just about what it what it takes to strengthen. Um okay let's go on to evangelists. Evangelists are the bringers of the good news. Um an evangelist is a gospel messenger. They are one who is going out and bringing the gospel to the lost. Um and and we see that apostles do something similar too. So like there's there's crossover in all of these. Um but some are more heavy in in something than others. Um evangelists have a burden for the lost. Okay? They if if you have ever um talked to an evangelist, you will see that an evangelist wants everybody to be an evangelist. Okay? That's they are motivators. They are encouraers. They are um they're they're they're like the cheerleaders of ministry. Um they see they see the lost and they want to go save the lost and they want you to go save the lost and they want everybody you know to go save the lost. They just want us all to get mobilized and go out in the street and preach the gospel out in the street to everybody who walks by and preach the gospel at your job and at your school and at Walmart and everywhere you go. And um you know if you're not an evangelist and and you start talking to one um you're going to realize real quickly that uh he thinks you should be an evangelist too because that's how evangelists think. They they they are an evangelist and they want everybody else to be evangelist too. And so that is that is one thing interesting about evangelists. You don't see that with apostles or prophets or pastors or teachers. Um, apostles are like, "You don't want to be an apostle. Uh, this is a special calling that only certain people can have, and that's something God appoints, not, you know, not me." Uh, prophets are the same way. You know, you can't just be a prophet. You don't want to be a prophet. This is it's a hard life. Um, you don't want to you don't want to have that weight on your shoulders. Um, don't don't be a don't be a prophet. You know, that's what a prophet's going to tell you. You don't want to be a prophet. Pastor, same thing. They'll say, "Oh, nope. You don't want to be a pastor. Uh being a pastor is hard. Uh it really wears on you. It tears you down. It's it's not for everybody. Um it takes a special person to be a pastor. And if you're not called, you you you shouldn't do it. You should go do something else. And teachers will say the same thing. They'll say, you know, um you know, you have you have to be qualified to be a teacher. Not everybody can be a teacher. You have to you have to really study and know what you're talking about and and really be willing to dig in and and understand the depths of scripture before you can teach. And uh there's you know there's a lot of accountability behind that and stricter judgment. You know the Bible even says not many should seek to be a teacher because of stricter judgment. And but evangelist says I'm an evangelist and you should be an evangelist too. And you and you and you and you and you and you and you and you. We should all be evangelists. Like that's the mindset of an evangelist. And um so it's really interesting how that works. But um they are uh they're the ones who stir up the church for outreach. They they're here to motivate to stir us up, to encourage us to go out and reach the the lost with the gospel. And they help uh teach others how to share their faith, how they they equip others to share their faith correctly. Um, and so evangelists equip others in the church to evangelize. And so not only do they do the work of evangelism, but they equip others to do evangelism as well. Um, and so a verse to go along with that is second Timothy uh chapter 4 and verse 5. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. Okay. Then we get to pastors. Again, like I said, pastors are shepherds. They are the caregivers. Um they uh lead the sheep, they feed the sheep, and they protect the sheep. That's the purpose, the function of a pastor. That's their function. And again, these are functions I want to emphasize. It's not a title. It's not it's not about I want I call myself apostle so and so or I call myself prophet so and so or I call myself evangelist so and so or I'm pastor so and so or I'm teacher so and so. It's not about titles. It's about function. What is your function in the body and an apostle functions as someone who uh you know they plant and they start and they lay foundation and they they bring doctrine. Okay, they are foundation layer. A prophet is one who speaks forth God's word um to the people. A evangelist is one who goes out and wins the lost. And a pastor is one who shepherds and cares for the sheep. They lead the sheep. Uh they they counsel, they comfort, um they guard against spiritual predators. Um they protect, you know, they they they they know how to identify a sheep from a wolf. Okay. And they they separate their sheep from the wolves. And they protect the sheep from the wolves. And they guard the sheep so the wolves can't come in and get them and lead them astray. And they they get very defensive and protective of their sheep because they love their sheep and they care for their sheep. A pastor is someone who has deep uh love for for the people that God has entrusted him to and he understands that he is a steward of those people. He's those people are given to him as stewardship and he is there to manage them well and to lead them well. Um pastors walk closely with the people helping them grow in holiness. Uh pastors uh work to disciple uh people that that's part of their part of their function is as disciplemakers. Um they they make disciples. They disciple people and they make disciples. Um they are they are there to help the church be healthy and grow. Um and and help each individual part each individual person in the church to be healthy and to grow. Um and so pastor is you know when you think of pastor you should think of a shepherd. What does the shepherd do? It takes care of the flock. It leads the flock. It it feeds the flock. It guards the flock. That is what a shepherd does. And so first Timothy, we had the verse for pastors and I want to uh bring it to is 1 Timothy chapter 3 and start verse two. A bishop then must be blameless. The husband of one wife, temperate, soberminded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach, uh, not given to much wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelome, not covetous, one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence. For if man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God? Okay. Uh that's important. You need to know how to if you can't raise your own children, if you can't take care of your own family, if you can't lead your own wife, if you're not a spiritual leader to your wife, then how do you think you can lead the church? Um if you're not a spiritual leader to your children, h how do you think you can lead the church? Um you need to first know how to manage your own home and lead your own home and be a pastor to your wife and your children before you can try to lead the church. Um then we go on he says they're not to be a novice. They're not to be a new new to the faith, new to their doctrine, new to their beliefs. Uh why? Because less being puffed up with pride, he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Okay? So he's not to be a new believer. So, this is this is something else we see a lot of times is someone famous maybe um comes to faith and they they decide they're going to be a a a believer now. All of a sudden, we want them to be a teacher because oh, they've got they've got influence. So, we need to get them in front of people and have them teach people. And they they they don't know how to teach people. They just started believing. They just just started reading their Bible. They don't know the first thing about leading and teaching people in the scriptures. Yeah, they're influential. Yeah, they're popular. Yeah, they're beautiful. Whatever it is that you think about them that makes them qualified, that's not what qualifies them. They haven't they haven't walked with the Lord long enough. They're novice. They're new. Um, they haven't served the Lord long enough. That, you know, I I think about the uh the illustration of the fruit tree in in the Old Testament. The the commandment around the fruit tree is that uh when you plant a fruit tree, for the first three years, you're not to eat of its fruit at all. And then the fourth year, you dedicate it to God. And then the fifth year, you can eat of its fruit. And so it takes five years before you can eat from a fruit tree. If you plant, if you go plant an apple tree or peach tree, cherry tree, whatever, you got to wait five years before you're supposed to eat of the fruit. you let that fruit fall to the ground and rot and decompose and and nurture that soil and produce good soil and fruitful soil and good nutrients in that soil so that the tree is stronger and healthier and can produce better fruit. Um but uh they're not to be a novice. They're not to be a new person. Wrong button. And then we have um he must have a good testimony among those who are outside lest he fall into the reproach and the snare of the devil. So they're to have a good testimony. They're they're to have um they're they're not to be thought poorly of. Um people people should say, you know, hey, he's he's trustworthy. He's honest. He's um you know, he's someone who is faithful. He's someone who is um not deceitful. He's you know, we we feel like we can trust this guy. We feel like he he he's compassionate. He's loving. He's kind. People should recognize that about a leader. And if if people don't recognize that about about somebody or about you, uh that's a problem. And I man I I've met some pastors in my life that uh you know you meet them and you think man that guy reminds me of a used car salesman uh or or you know that guy reminds me of um you know somebody from uh you know like a a mafia or something you know like he he seems like a mobster and it's because they don't have the character that a leader should a leader should have. And so, you know, you meet a a pastor or a leader of some kind and and you know, you go to meet him and and the impression you walk away with is he seems like a used car salesman. Well, what does that tell you? That that means that this guy is um he's trying to get something out of you. This this guy is deceptive. He's sneaky. He's slick. He's smooth with his words. You know, he comes in, he's flattery and and smooth talker, and he can get you to really like him. And then but but there's this thing where he he can use that to his advantage and he he can use that to to get something from you. Well, that's not how pastor should be. Um or he reminds you of of some some sort of a a mob boss. Well, you know what what does that mean? Well, you walk in and you meet this guy and and he's got his um his entourage of uh uh security guards uh guarding him. Uh you can't touch him. Uh you have to get permission to come talk to him. Um you know, he's he doesn't he doesn't fellowship with the people. He he's kept side in a special green room where nobody can inter interact with him until it's time for him to come and get on stage and then when he's done talking then he goes back to his green room and is separate from the people and you don't ever actually get to talk to the guy face to face. Um he's just there speak and doesn't want to actually shake hands or fellowship with you at all. Doesn't want to get to know you. Doesn't want to know your name. He's just there to present. That's not that's not that's not the heart of a a leader, biblical leader. Um, you know, we see a someone like Paul. Paul was an apostle. He's one of the greatest apostles in my opinion. Uh, him and Peter, the two, I think, the two greatest apostles of the church. And they went to the people. They ate with the people. They fellowship with the people. They prayed with the people. they they had communication and connection with the people in all those ways. And so a leader needs to be hospitable. Okay, let's go back over these again. So we go back. Uh he must be husband or one wife, temperate, soberminded, of good behavior, hospitable. Okay. Hospitable is, you know, someone who's willing to have entertain guests and and be um, you know, in communication with with the people. Um, they're able to teach, not given to wine. Okay? So, not to be a drunkard, not violent. This is something we got to be careful of, too, is is biblical leaders shouldn't be violent people. Um, you know, if you see someone who is is a violent person, um, you need to be cautious about letting them be a leader, uh, not greedy for money. This is a big one. They should not be greedy for money. Um, let me let me emphasize this. They should not be greedy for money. Um, if you know, you look at these these TV preachers, TV and pastors, and what do they do is, uh, if you'll send me your money, I'll I'll send you a blessing. Um, you know, send us send us a donation and we'll we'll give you, uh, this free gift. Um, you know, it's all about money. It's all about blessings. If you want God to bless you, then send us your money. Um, and all it is is they're just trying to get money from you. Now, I do believe that uh money is important, that tithes are important, that that donations are important, that supporting ministry financially is important. I I I believe that a worker is worthy of his wages. I believe that. Um but there's some p some pastors and some preachers and some evangelists that, you know, they're they come just for the money. They come just to get money from people and they they orchestrate their whole ministry on how can I grow financially? How can I get more money? How can I uh what can I do that's more profitable financially? Um and if if you're concerned about financial profit, then you're in you're in you're in the wrong business because that's not what ministry is about. Ministry is not about financial profit. Um, you know, I I believe that God provides for his leaders and his teachers and his his his people. Um, that God provides for ministry and he does so through the generous financial gifts of uh the people within that ministry or within that community. Um, and that's the way God designed it to work. But it's not about trying to to get rich. It's not about trying to uh buy a new house or a new plane or a new car or whatever. Um it's not about wearing fancy suits and you know expensive clothing and and things like that. It's if you're in ministry for money, you're in you're in for the wrong reason. Um, you know, I I I remember um when I was uh younger, I was a teenager, I I would often tell people that I I want to go into ministry when I grow up. I want to, you know, because people would ask, "What do you want to do when you grow up? I want to be a pastor. I want to go into ministry. I want to, you know, I want to do missions work." Something along those lines, you know, I want to be in ministry. I want to be a pastor. And um I remember one time, you know, most of the time people like, oh, hey, that's great. You know, good for you. I remember one time I I said that to somebody and they said, "I hear there's a lot of money in that." And I thought, "What? That's not what I've heard. I've heard that uh going into ministry, you're you're just signing over to life of poverty pretty much." Um because there's not a lot of money in ministry. Um, have you ever looked at I mean, if you look at the majority of churches, most churches are under 500 members. Um, and you know, the mega churches are getting rich. Yeah. Mega churches have multiple thousands of people, yeah, they're doing great financially, but most churches are under 500. And really, most the majority of churches are like under two or 300. Um, and you know, if you look at right now, there are so many churches that are under a hundred probably. You know, I I would mention I would venture to guess that over half of all churches in the world are under 100 members. There's no way that that pastor is getting rich off of 50 members or 80 members or 100 members. There's no way. He's not getting rich off. she's probably barely paying the electric bill. Um, and so when people say that, oh yeah, there's a lot of money in ministry, you're you're you're thinking wrong, um, it's not about money. Okay, so again, he says they're not to be greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelome, not covetous. Okay, covetous also is tied with greedy for money in ways. Uh, it's not always money, but it could be other things. and then one who rules his house well. Okay. So, um but these are qualifications for leadership in the church. And we see both elders and deacons have similar lists of qualifications. Um and that I think is very interesting because even though deacons don't teach, they still have similar requirements qualifications to be to lead. Okay? Pastors are not CEOs. um they're not corporate executives uh who are who are managing a business. That's that's the way the modern world seems to think and act. And that's the way they they try to treat pastors as some sort of a a CEO of business. And that's not what that's not what we're here for. We are stewards and undersheperds of the flock of God. And so I want to turn to first Peter now. 1 Peter chapter 5 and we'll start in verse two. says, "Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion, but willingly, not for dishonest gain, but eagerly, nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away." All right? So um that is the heart of a a true pastor, a true shepherd is is that we are to guard the flock that God has entrusted to us. We are to lead and um be stewards over God's people. And that's that's the way a pastor that's the heart of a pastor. And you know if you don't have that kind of a heart, if you're a pastor and you don't have that kind of heart, then pray pray that God would give you that kind of a heart. um or find a different job because you're not cut out to be a pastor. And if you want to be a pastor, pray for God to give you that kind of a heart or else you should probably find another job because you need to have that heart to be a pastor. Um and then Jeremiah 3 gives us a little bit more about uh Jeremiah 3:15. says, "And I will give you shepherds according to my heart who will feed you with knowledge and understanding." Okay. Um God wants to have shepherds who according to his heart, right? People who pastor and and shepherd the people from the heart of God. And that that is I I'm emphasizing pastor because I think pastor is a is a very significant role that we need more of um especially in this movement. We have a lot of people who want to be teachers in this movement. We don't have uh a lot of people who want to be pastors in this movement and we need more pastors. Um okay then we go into teachers. Teachers are uh the guardians of truth. Okay? They are instructors. They are the ones who uh teach the body sound doctrine. And the problem is there's also what the Bible calls a false teacher. And so just because somebody teaches doesn't mean they're teaching good doctrine. Uh there are false teachers um who teach false doctrine. And so we need to be careful. Teachers are here to explain the scriptures with clarity and with accuracy. And uh they a teacher is someone who is supposed to help you discern truth from error. And um false doctrine from good doctrine. That's what they're supposed to do is help help us um to to know what is good doctrine and what's not. to teach us good doctrine and to teach us what uh to to teach us to avoid the false doctrine and and what false doctrine is. Um so teachers are the guardians of doctrine, right? They they guard the word. They guard the theology. Um and so you think about a teacher. Teacher is what what what do you think of when you think of teacher? You think of a college professor, right? You think of your high school teacher. You think of a kindergarten teacher. The same kind of thing. A teacher is someone who who who brings sound doctrine. And so, you know, a theology professor at a college is what I would classify as a teacher in this in this aspect. um someone who teaches at church, someone who um they they have a class that they teach, they have an audience that they teach, they have u an auditorium that they teach. Now, some Yahoo who has a YouTube channel doesn't necessarily mean he's a teacher. Even if he has 200,000 subscribers, right? Even if he has a million subscribers, doesn't mean he's a teacher. He's just some guy who got a YouTube channel. That doesn't make him a teacher. And so what makes him a teacher is is he teaching sound doctrine? Is he guarding the biblical faith? Is he is he helping people to grow in their knowledge and understanding of the word of God? If he's not teaching that, then he's not a teacher. He's just some guy who's posting videos online. Um, you know, so we've got to be careful about who we listen to and who we let who who whose voices are we letting into our ears because there are a lot of false teachers in the world today. And um they have a huge platform online. That's one thing that social media has done is it's given a platform. Uh it's given a platform for good teachers, which is great. It's awesome. Good teachers have so much more ability to reach people with the message. But it's also given a platform for bad teachers and for false doctrine and false teachings and it's given them the same platform. And so you know whereas you know a couple hundred years ago a preacher was bound to his pulpit in his town and he may have 50 people in his church and that's the extent of his reach. And so he pours his life into those 50 people until he dies. Well, now a preacher has whoever's in his congregation plus whoever might possibly be watching online, which could be thousands or even millions of people potentially. So, his reach is much greater, but his responsibility is also much greater because if he teaches false doctrine, he has just led even more people astray. If if that preacher who only has 50 people in his congregation teaches a false doctrine, he's only misled 50 people. The preacher who preaches online and leads million a million people astray. He is accountable for the millions of people he led astray. That's a greater responsibility. And so, you know, I I would encourage um online teachers especially, weigh that, consider that. What are you doing? Make sure you are not leading people astray because you're going to be held accountable for that. Um and then a verse I have along with teachers is Titus uh chapter 1 verse9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and convict those who contradict. Okay. So this is uh the responsibility of a teacher. And then James 3 is the final warning. James 3:1. My brethren, not let uh let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall we receive a stricter judgment. Okay. So um we need to be careful that we're not uh trying to exalt oursel. We're not trying to become a teacher. it to be in ministry, to be a pastor, an apostle, a prophet, an evangelist, a teacher, whatever it is, whatever role um in ministry you're looking at, it's a we need to take that role seriously and we need to consider um that it's a calling from God. It's not just something you you just decide one day, hey, I think I'll do this. Um, it's a calling from God. And if you you can't just treat it like a job. It's not just like, oh, hey, I think I'll I'll I'll go mons for a living, or I think I'll I'll go um, you know, be a firefighter, or I think I'll go um work, you know, sell used cars or I think I'll, you know, you can't just say, "Hey, I think I'll be a pastor." It make sure it's a calling. Make sure God has called you to it. And it's not something you inherit. You know, just because your dad was a pastor doesn't mean you are a pastor. Um I actually knew people in college who, you know, it's like they they come from this family of pastors and their dad was a pastor and their grandpa was a pastor and their great-rpa was a pastor and they think that, well, that's that's what I got to do. I'm supposed to follow in my dad's footsteps. That's not necessarily true. Um just because your dad was a pastor doesn't mean you are called to be a pastor. God may have a different calling for you. Um but the five-fold ministry is important and it matters today and uh we have a need for apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. uh these roles are not obsolete and they are necessary for the edification of the body and the unifying of the body and uh to build us up in our faith and strengthen our doctrine and our faith and our beliefs. Um and they are important. So now I I want to quickly touch on elders and deacons. And I know I'm already past my hour so hang on with me. try to make it quick because elders and deacons um fall under a lot of the other stuff I've already talked about. Right? So, an elder is um elders and deacons are about local leadership in the church. And so, elders oftentimes elders and pastors are kind of synonymous and over have a lot of overlap. Um and deacons have more to do with servant. And and the word deacon actually means to serve. And so back to the beginning we have before you want you know if you want to lead you need to first become a servant. And so that idea of um you know becoming a pastor someday you need to learn how to to be a deacon. You need to learn how to serve. You need to learn how to uh wait tables fold chairs. You know this example we see in Acts is when they they appointed deacons. It was for the purpose of of serving food, waiting tables so that the apostles could teach the word. Um and so deacons serve the physical and administrative needs of the community. Um freeing the elders to focus on prayer and teaching. Okay. Um and so they work together. Elders and deacons work together. elders are there for the uh the teaching and um spiritual oversight, spiritual uh leadership in the in the community. And then the deacons are there for the physical uh oversight and physical uh service and leadership within the community. And um so the elders focus on prayer and teaching and the deacons focus on uh doing the work, doing the labor. Okay. qualifications uh listed for both are very similar and they're supposed to be above reproach, faithful to their their wife, um self-controlled, hospitable, able to teach, not greedy, and managing their households well. That those are qualifications that are for both elders and deacons. They share um and so it's not about having a good resume, I guess. Um, you know, when you when you look at the qualifications for uh elders and deacons in the church, it's not, hey, they need to have these qualifications um as far as degrees and pedigrees and things like that, right? You know, you don't have to have a a PhD to be an elder. You don't have to have a um you know a doctorate or master's degree. You don't have to have even a bachelor's degree to be a pastor elder. Um it's not about degrees. It's not about things like that. It's it's about your character and it's about your reputation and it's about your um your your ability to communicate the word of God with others, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a degree to do so. Um, and it's not about how much authority or how much um influence you have. It's it's about how well you manage the things that you have authority over. And so, uh, it's not about being a popular superstar who has millions of fans worldwide. It's about how well do you take care of your wife and kids? How well do you manage your household? Um, you know, so it's about what what's your character like? Okay. And so elders are spiritual overseers, shepherds of the flock. Uh, elder is often interchangeable with a pastor and a shepherd. So they're very similar function and um there's a lot of overlap. Um, but an elder is not always a pastor. Pastors are referred to as elders multiple times throughout scripture, but elders are not always pastors. And so an elder is is someone who is um you know has has respect and authority in the community and has oversight. Um but they don't always teach. It says an elder who teaches is worthy of double honor though. And so that means that not all elders have to teach. Um but they feed the flock. They they take care of the flock. Um they guard the truth. Uh they model uh integrity, godly living. They lead with accountability. Um and then deacons are servants. The word deacon means to serve a servant or a minister. Um we see in Acts six when they first appointed the apostles they handled the practical needs the um the the serving of tables things like that and the administrative logistical tasks. Uh they care for the poor and the widows. They um they support the teaching ministry by freeing up elders to do spiritual duties, you know. So they they free up elders to be able to teach by them taking care of other things. Uh they demonstrate integrity and faithfulness in the church. Um and deacons serve the physical body so that the spiritual body remains strong. They don't just set up chairs or count offerings. They embody the Messiah. Uh the Messiah's example of servant-hearted ministry. Okay? They embody servant leadership. They embody servantthood. Um, and that's something that deacons are are great at. Um, let's see. All right. So, uh, together we see the elders and deacons both they work together. They are necessary. They support one another. Um, and they strengthen the church. Um, it's important to have both elders and deacons. And elders would consist of pastors and teachers. Uh whereas deacons would be uh servant leaders. And um but they bring order to the to the church, order to the community and unity. And um they make ministry more effective. Um elders and deacons are not about titles. Um, and that's something I I I keep saying, but I I I think it's important because people so many times they want a title. They want they want to be seen as somebody special, somebody important, somebody um who people look up to. And that's not what it's about. It's not about having a title. The the title deacon means servant. Okay? So, you're you're you're aspiring to have a title of deacon, but what that means is you're you're you're the servant. You're the one who cleans the bathrooms. You're the one who sets up chairs. You're the one who washes windows. You're the one who plans events. You're the one who vacuums. Like, that's that's the role of a deacon. But, you know, I've had people want to to become deacons and when they realize they find out that it's about being a servant, they realize that's not what they thought it was. They they thought it was a title of authority, a title of respect, that people would uh somehow look up to them and and honor them and respect them because they are somebody special. That's not what it's about. It's about serving. And same thing with elders, pastors, teachers. Um it's about serving and it's just serving in a different function now. You're serving uh in the word of God and you're serving in prayer and you're serving in counseling and you're serving in uh ministering to people and and helping those in need. Um and so you're serving in a different way, but it's still about serving. And if if you if you want to be a pastor or a teacher or an elder or something because you think that's going to give you a platform um so that people will listen to you and give you authority and respect then you need to go into politics or some other uh you know become a you know go into some other field where um you know that's important because that's not important in in church leadership. It's not important that you have a platform so people can hear you. That's not the purpose. Um the purpose is so that uh God can be heard and so that God can be exalted. It's not about exalting you. It's about exalting him. Um and we are our our aspiration as ministers is should be to be a faithful servant to Yeshua. That's that's what our goal should be to be a faithful servant. Um not to be a prominent speaker, a prominent voice in the world. Um our our goal is to be a faithful servant. So that he says, "Well done, good and faithful servant." Um, and so Matthew 23 verse 11, but he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted. Okay. So, this is this is how we should treat leadership is is it is we're we're doing it as a service. We are here to serve. Um and and our goal and desire should be how Lord, how can I serve you better? Um all right. I think that's going to wrap that up for this week. Um let me go ahead and talk about next week. Okay. So, next week, uh, we are going to be talking about, um, church discipline. And this is one of those topics that I think really needs to be talked about, but rarely gets talked about. Um, it's one that people misunderstand and they they don't they don't understand how it's supposed to function and they they get it wrong. And so, I think church discipline is extremely important for us to have a good biblical understanding of. And so that's what we're gonna talk about next week. And um so it's you know discipline is is I don't want to give you too much but discipline is not about punishment. It's about restoration. Okay. And and that's I think where I want to leave it for next week. And so come back next week uh as we talk about church discipline and uh see how it really should function in the church. All right. Thanks. We'll see you guys next time. Thank you for joining me on Let's Talk Biblical. If you enjoyed this episode, then share it with your friends and keep the conversation going. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss anything. And I look forward to chatting with you again next week. Until next time, keep talking biblical. Shalom.