Church Discipline according to the Bible | Let's Talk Biblical

If you love talking about the Bible as much as I do, then I think you'll really enjoy this show. Welcome to Let's Talk Biblical, the podcast where we dig deep into the heart of scripture, explore timeless truths, and have real conversations about what the Bible says and how it applies to us. My name is Lex and I want to thank you for joining me on today's episode. So, grab your Bible, get comfortable, and let's talk biblical. Hey, welcome back. All right, so today we are going to be diving into a topic that many churches want to avoid, but the Bible talks about it. And so, um, because scripture talks about it, I think it's important for us to talk about it. And it can be an uncomfortable topic at times, especially if you're involved in the process. And what I'm talking about today is church discipline. And so if you are someone who is involved on either end of church discipline, it's not always comfortable. It's it's actually it's never comfortable. Um it's it's not a fun uh fun thing to be a part of on either end. Whether you're the one giving the discipline or you're the one receiving the discipline, it's not a fun topic. Um, but it is important and is something we all need to be aware of. So, what does the Bible say about correcting sin in the congregation, in the community? And is it legalistic for us to hold each other accountable or is it an act of love? And that's that's kind of the the thrust of what we're going to be talking about today. Um, we're going to explore what Yeshua and the apostles taught about the topic of church discipline and confronting sin. Um, and about restoring those who have been involved in the process, uh, restoring them back into the community. But first thing I want to point out is that church discipline is about maintaining the the purity of the entire congregation. And so as we're looking at this, that's something to keep in mind is is that um church discipline is about maintaining the community and and keeping the entire community um holy and um walking in the right path. Um so first off, let's talk about what is church discipline. Um and I want to define it biblically. And church discipline is the process by which the body of believers holds its members accountable to the standard of God's word. Okay. Um let me go ahead and say that one more time just so we're clear on what this definition is. Church discipline is the process by which the body of believers holds its members accountable to the standard of God's word. Okay. And church discipline includes rebuking someone, correcting someone. Um, and if if necessary, removal of someone from the congregation. Um, but the goal of church discipline is always repentance and restoration. And so, no matter what the situation, the goal is repentance and restoration. Um, so I want to start with Revelation chapter 3. And we're going to look at verse 19. Says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasen. Therefore, be zealous and repent." Okay, so uh this is Yeshua speaking and he says, "Those who I love, I rebuke and chasen." And so it is an act of love to rebuke and chasen someone. It's a an act of love to um to confront someone about their sin and to correct their behavior. That is an act of love. Um but how you approach it can make a huge difference. And so if you um if you are kind in your approach uh and let them know that it is from love and that it is for their good, for their benefit, that makes a huge difference. uh versus being cruel and um harsh with that person. And so um I think that discipline should always come from a place of love. Whether you're disciplining your children or whether you're disciplining someone in the community of faith. Discipline should always come from a place of love. Um I remember when I was a kid, I I got I got a lot of spankings growing up. And when my dad would come to spank me, um, he made sure that he had time to cool off first before he came in to give me my spanking because he didn't want to spank me while he was angry because he was afraid he would hurt me in his anger. And so he would send me to my room and tell me to cool off and think about it and take some time to consider what I'd done. And what he told me later, what he was actually doing was giving himself time to cool down before he gave me my spanking. And so he'd send me in my room and and tell me to think about it. And then he would take some time and cool off and calm himself and gather his thoughts. Then he would come in and he would lecture me first. And I think sometimes the lecture was worse than the spanking. Um, but he would tell me what I did wrong and why it was wrong and uh how I disappointed him and how I um let him down and things like that. And then he would say, "Okay, now I'm going to spank you and I'm doing this because I love you and I don't want you uh you know, I don't want you to to grow up to be a a criminal or something." So, um so then he would he would he would spank me. Um, but it gave him time to cool down before he spanked me so that he didn't lash out in anger and just, you know, hurt me in the process. Um, and I think that's important for, you know, one thing for parents to consider is when you're when you're disciplining your kids, don't discipline them in anger. Um, discipline them in love. And the same thing for uh, community discipline. When you're disciplining someone in a congregation, obviously you're not giving them a spanking um but you're disciplining them verbally uh by chastising them, by rebuking them, by telling them that what they've done wrong, correcting their mistakes, uh giving them counsel, um things like that. And so do that out of a place of love. And even if you're removing them from the fellowship, even if it's the type of sin where you have to say, you know what, you can't be part of our congregation anymore, that can still be done in love. It doesn't have to be um angry and cold. It can be done in love. All right. Uh, the next verse I want to look at is 2 Timothy chapter 4 and verse two says, "Preach the word. Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort with all long longsuffering and teaching." Okay. So, here it talks about teaching, but it also talks about rebuking someone. And so, to rebuke is to um tell them what they've done wrong. And so, uh to tell them, hey, you you know, you have you've errored in this way and uh you have sinned and you have you have done something contrary to what the word of God says. And so, um we've had examples of things like this in our congregation. So, um, let me go ahead and pull up this, uh, the verse one more time on the screen so we can read along. Preach the word, be ready in season, out of season. So, preaching, uh, sometimes can be a time of correction. And so, sometimes you're giving instruction, sometimes you're giving, uh, exhortation, sometimes you're giving, um, correction, sometimes you're giving uh, a rebuke, sometimes you're giving um, theology. You know, there's all kinds of things that you can be giving while you're preaching, but sometimes preaching is a time of correction, correcting bad behavior. So, you're telling them what sin is and then um you know, pointing them away from it, pointing them to to do better. Um and so there have been times in in our ministry and in in our church where this is how correction has come is through preaching. And so there's something going on. Let's say gossip for example. there's there's gossip going on in the church and it's multiple people involved in it rather than going one by one individually. We may just take a a uh teaching and just talk about what is gossip and get everybody on the same page and say, "Okay, this is what you're supposed to avoid. Don't do this. This is what gossip is. Don't do it." So that we can correct them through teaching. Um and then uh rebuke exhort with all longsuffering and teaching. So rebuke with longsuffering and teaching. So you know this is a type of rebuke that would come through teaching. Um you know and so for example if somebody's breaking the Sabbath, we may um do a teaching on what does it mean to break the Sabbath and talk about that. So, you know, those are some some examples of of how you might be able to um bring correction, bring discipline just through teaching. And so, sometimes that's all it needs is just teach on it. And that helps correct the situation so that they get back in line. They realize they've stepped outside the bounds of scripture. They're doing something scripture says you're not supposed to do. And you teach on it so they're educated. And sometimes just educating somebody on what they've done. um educating them on what sin is. Sometimes that is enough to uh to stop the problem and to correct the behavior. And so uh something else I want to point out is church discipline is not about judgment. Um it's about the kind of godly love that cannot ignore sin. Okay? And so judging somebody is oftentimes seen as um harsh, as seen as um holding something against them, um putting them down, um things like that. And so that's not the point of uh church discipline is not not to be judgmental, not to be um harsh. It's to bring love, but it's it's it's the kind of love that doesn't tolerate sin. And so that's where church discipline comes from is the heart of love that does not tolerate sin. And so I want to now turn to Matthew 18. Now Matthew 18 is not explicitly about church discipline, but I think that we can get some uh principles from it. And it's it's actually Matthew 18 is u it's about when you're uh someone sins against you personally and how you process it. But it can also it it moves us towards church discipline. And so it starts this is where um if someone offends you personally, this is your process before you have to take it to a church discipline matter is really kind of what it is. And so it says, "Moreover, brother, uh, moreover, if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother." All right? So, um, first thing you do is you go talk to that person, just you and him or you and her. And so, you let's say, you know, someone at church uh said or did something that offended you. They hurt your feelings somehow. they um they slandered you or they gossiped about you or they said something mean to you or um they you know even things like you know they they didn't invite you to something so you were hurt because you didn't get invited to their their event. Um there's all kinds of ways this could manifest all kinds of situation but the the point is it's between you and this person. It's not a public matter. It's not uh it's not that they have um been involved in some uh heinous sin per se. It's that they have sinned against you. They have hurt you somehow. And whether they said something to you that hurt you or something about you that hurt you, anything like that. Um there's been some sort of offense between you and him, you and her. You go to that person oneon one and you try to reconcile. And the goal of this is reconciliation. And so you go to them and say, 'Hey, you know, you really hurt me when you did this. You really hurt me when you said this. Um, you hurt me because you didn't invite me to this and I felt left out. You know, whatever whatever the situation might be, go to that person oneonone and mend the relationship and say, you know, you you hurt me and give them opportunity to repent and to apologize. In many cases, that's exactly where it'll stop because they'll just say, "Oh man, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you. I I'm really sorry. Um, you know, that wasn't my intention. I didn't want to hurt you. Um, please forgive me. And that may be the end of it. And and you don't even have to go to the next step. But let's say you go to them and and you say, "Hey, you you you did this. You hurt me. You offended me." And they say, you know, "So what? I don't care. That's not my problem. That's your problem." Well, then we go to step two. Okay. And so we go to step two and it says, "And if he refuses to hear you, tell it to the church." Oops. I'm sorry. Uh, sorry, I skipped a step. Uh, okay. But if he will not hear you, take with you two or or more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word may be established. Okay? So you go to your brother and tell him his fault between you and him alone. And if he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear you, take with you two or more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word may be established. Okay? So what this is talking about is you're taking witnesses to the conversation. They don't have to be witnesses to the offense. Um, so you're not ganging up on him and saying, "Okay, hey, Bob and Susie both saw you do this and so now you you're cornered because we got three against one." That's that's not that's not what it's talking about. It's bringing a couple of people with you to the conversation to witness the conversation to make sure things go well. And so then you start over again and you say, "Hey brother, hey sister, you have sinned against me and I've brought some witnesses now for the conversation." They're here to see that the conversation goes well, to see that repentance is made, to see that forgiveness is made, um to see that restoration can take place between you and me. And so that's what those witnesses are there for is to help ensure that the conversation goes well, to to help ensure that things are not getting out of hand. um that that uh that the person understands the seriousness of the matter, things like that. Okay. And then uh the next one uh here it is. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. Okay? So you've taken your your two or three witnesses with you. And if he still refuses, even with all these witnesses, uh then you tell it to the church. Okay? Okay. So then you would go uh so then you tell to the church. But if he refuses to hear even the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Okay. So uh you you go to him, he's he refuses. You bring a couple witnesses. He still refuses to try to reconcile. Then you go before the church. And so what that means is you go to uh most likely would mean you go to church leadership and you get the leadership of the church involved. Now, obviously, this would only apply if it's someone who is part of the congregation. So, if if this person is uh not a member of the congregation, then going to the church doesn't even make sense because what's the church going to do? Uh the church is going to kick out somebody who's never been part of the church. No, that that doesn't make sense. Um so, this is talking about someone who is part of the church. You bring them, you bring the matter before the elders, the leadership of the church and let them get involved in the process. And so they would then go to the person and bring the word of correction to that person, try to reconcile the situation, try to work through the details of, you know, what happened and uh, you know, why they need to correct their behavior, why they need to repent and apologize, whatnot. But if he still refuses even after church leadership is involved, then it says, "Let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." Okay? So now he is at the point where you're kicking him out of the church. He's no longer part of the church. He is now an outsider. Treat him as an outsider. He is no longer a brother. He's no longer a member of the church. And that is that is kind of that process of of what's going on there. So, um, once again, you go first, you go privately to the person and show him his fault just between you and him. If he doesn't listen, bring two or three witnesses to help mediate the conversation so that maybe it'll go well. Hopefully, it'll go well. If it still doesn't go well, then you go to the elders of the church, the leadership of the church, and you get them involved. Once they get involved, if it still doesn't go well, if there still isn't reconciliation, then they will make the decision that this person needs to be cut off from the congregation and kicked out of the church. Um, that is not the goal though. The goal is not to kick people out of the church. The goal is reconciliation. Okay? And I've actually had people come to me and they say, 'Well, I need you to do Matthew 18 with so- and so because you need to kick them out of the church because they're doing this and that. No, it's it's not that I need to kick them out of the church. Matthew 18 is about reconciliation. It's about trying to bring reconciliation and restoration to the relationship. And both parties need to be involved in that reconciliation. and both parties need to be willing to reconcile uh for reconciliation to take place. If one of those parties is not willing to reconcile, then the party that does not want to reconcile is the party that is removed from the congregation. Um and that's because they refuse to reconcile. And so that's that's kind of the uh the process. Um this is the biblical way to confront sin. And again, the goal is repentance and restoration, reconciliation. Um, and and I want to point out if someone is removed from the congregation, um, even if you're told, hey, you need to distance yourself from them, uh, cut off cut them off from fellowship, um, treat them like an outsider, treat them like a a heathen, treat them like a pagan, that doesn't mean you stop loving them, okay? you still love them. You still pray for them and you're still hoping for their restoration and their return. Uh praying for them to have a change of heart, praying for them to have repentance in their life. Ch praying for them that they would seek out reconciliation and come back into the faith. Um and that is still the goal. Even if they're removed, that's still the goal. Okay? And we see this in 1 Corinthians 5. Okay? So, um Paul is talking about um a certain type of sin that takes place in 1 Corinthians 5. And he says, "You need to kick him out of the church." And I want to go and pull that up real quick. And we we're going to start we'll start in verse one. It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you and such sexual immorality that is not even named among the Gentiles that a man has his father's wife. Okay. And he says and you are puffed up and have not rather mourned that he has done this deed might be taken away from among you. Okay. So he is bringing correction to the church. Paul is as an apostle, he is overseeing multiple churches and we talked about apostles um last week or the week before uh last week. And um the role one of the roles of an apostle is he's an overseer over multiple congregations. And so as an apostle, he is overseeing those congregations. And he's going to this church and he's saying, "You messed up. You need to have disciplined this person. you should have already done this. Now I'm stepping in and telling you this is what you need to do. And so he says this this guy is committing sexual sin and it's a really bad sexual sin and because of the the level of such sexual sin that is going on, he needs to be removed from the church. He cannot remain in the church because of the type of sin that he's involved in. And it doesn't have to be specific to this exact instance. There are lots of different types of sexual immorality that would fall under this category. And so if someone is in an an unrepentant sexual immorality, um that person at some point will need to be removed from the the congregation. Um and hopefully having, you know, confronting them about the sin, rebuking the sin will be enough that they will change and and repent. Um but if if if they don't repent, if they don't change their ways, um then it may come to the point where you have to say, "Okay, this person can't be in the church anymore." And depending on the sin, you may have to do it sooner than later. And so with a grievous grievous sexual sin like this, he says, "You need to immediately remove this person from your congregation." So he says um for indeed as absent in body but present in spirit I have already judged as though I were present him who has done this deed. Okay. So, he he didn't have to be there to tell us what to do. What to do. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together along with my spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved. Excuse me. deliver such one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. In the day of the Lord Jesus. Okay, you deliver such one to Satan. Um what does that mean? He's saying hand them over to Satan. Kick them out of the congregation. He is no longer part of the He's no longer considered a saint. He is no longer considered a child of God. He's no longer considered part of the church. You kick him out of the church. Hand him over to Satan. That's what that's what that means. Okay. And it says for the uh that his flesh may be saved. For the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved. Okay. The destruction of the flesh is is to destroy his flesh nature so that he can come to his senses. You think about the prodigal son. All right? The prodigal son has to go wallow in the pigs in the pigsty. He has to he has to live with the pigs for a while and see the depths of his sin and see how far he has fallen. Um if he is if he is to if he if he's allowed to remain in church, he's never going to see the bottom. He's never going to hit rock bottom. He's never going to see the depths of his sin. He's going to continue walking in sin and thinking everything's okay because he's allowed to remain in the community. So you kick him out of the community and you tell him you are no longer part of the church. You are an outsider. You are you are in exile. You are no longer saved. That is that is basically what you're telling this person is you are no longer saved. You are no longer uh a man of God. You are walking in sin and we're handing you over to Satan. U so that your flesh will be destroyed. So that you will come to your senses. So that you will repent. Um so that you will truly see the depravity of your sin. so that you can come to the Lord. Come to your senses and come back to the Lord with uh with full faith with um you know set free from this sin. Okay? So the spirit may be saved. So the whole point again is restoration. It's so that he can find salvation. Uh many people think that you need to allow them allow them to continue being in church because you think well if he keeps coming to church maybe he'll he'll change his ways. maybe he'll learn. Maybe he'll um you know, he'll he'll hear a sermon and get convicted or whatever. That's that's not what it says. It says you kick him out of the church so that he will repent, so that he will turn from his sin. He He knows what he did is wrong. And if he doesn't, by you telling him this was wrong and that's why you're you're being kicked out, now he knows it was wrong. Um, and so that rebuke, that correction, and that kicking him out of the congregation is what is to solidify the depths of his sin so that he will come to his senses, so that he will change his ways and repent. Um, and so there there are a number of things that this would apply to, but anytime you kick somebody out of the church, that's the goal. That is the goal is for their salvation, for they're coming to their sentence uh coming to their senses and repenting and that's the goal. Okay. Um but the the goal of this isn't punishment. The goal is salvation. And um sometimes removing someone from the congregation is the thing that will cause them to come back to their senses and to repent. Okay. So that sometimes that is the necessary step in order to for them to have the salvation that they truly need to be set free from whatever this sin is that is uh ins snared them and ent trapped them. Okay. Um and so why is church discipline necessary? It's for the restoration of the sinner. Um so that's first thing is it's for the restoration of the center. That's the first uh primary um goal of church discipline is the restoration of the sinner for the healing and and salvation of the sinner to get them uh to repent of their sin and to walk in righteousness to walk according to God's word. Um it's not about shame. It's about healing. Okay? It's not about tearing somebody down. It's about helping them get to the point where they will actually change. It's it's it's a catalyst for change. That's that's the goal. Uh second secondary the primary is for their salvation. Secondary is for the uh the holiness of the congregation because allowing sin to remain in the congregation defiles the congregation. And so by allowing that sin to continue, you are defiling the congregation. You need to expel the sinner. We see this even in the Old Testament. There's certain types of sins that God says, "Kick them outside the camp. They can't be here." And an example of this is uncleanness. Certain types of uncleanness, they're supposed to stay out of the camp because that uncleanness spreads um and it contaminates others. And so you think of leprosy. That's something they're an outcast. They're they're they're an outsider. They no longer belong to the camp. And that's that's kind of what sin is like. Sin is kind of like leprosy. And if you allow it to remain, if people are aware of it and it's it's going on and they know it's going on and it's remaining, they it it spreads. And so often times other people will say, "Well, he's doing it, so I guess it's okay for me." And it'll cause other people to do it, too. Um, and so one easy example of this may be alcoholism. Okay? So, it's it's not a sin to drink, to have some alcohol. Um, you know, have a glass of wine with your dinner, you know, have have a beer occasionally, whatever. But the Bible is against it's the Bible is opposed to drunkenness and to being a drunkard. Okay? Drunkenness is a state of being drunk. And so, the Bible is opposed to you being drunk. So, you can have a glass of wine, but don't get drunk. You can have a beer, but don't get drunk. Um, you can have a glass of whiskey if you want, but don't get drunk. And so drunkenness is to be avoided. And then a drunkard is someone who is regularly drunk, someone who is drunk on a regular basis. And so we would refer to those persons as maybe an alcoholic. Um, but the point is, uh, if you have someone like that in the congregation, um, it is contagious. And so you have um uh let's say you have a person in your congregation who is regularly drunk and he's drunk around other people. He invites other people from church over to his house and he gets drunk and every time they come over he gets drunk and then they start thinking, "Well, I guess this is okay. He's doing it. He's part of the congregation. Um you know, maybe it's okay. maybe it's okay for me to be a drunk. And we've got to be careful that we're not condoning sin and and encouraging other people to participate in sin. Um, and so that's something you got to be careful of. Um, and so if if you are allowing a drunkard to remain in the congregation, then you may be encouraging that type of sin in other people. Um, also I wonder if there is some sort of a spiritual contagiousness to certain sins. And so, for example, if you have someone in your congregation who is um, you know, practicing homosexuality or uh, someone who is um, looking at pornography or someone who is uh, committing adultery or someone who is uh, doing some form of sexual sin. It may be done in secret where nobody knows about it. But could it be that when they come into the congregation, there's some sort of a spiritual demonic uh element that is brought in with them that could then be transferred to other people in the process and make them unclean in the process. Make them have sinful desires, sinful thoughts, things like that. I think that is a possibility not beyond uh reason. And so, um, when you're aware of sin, you need to deal with it, um, and and deal quickly with it and not allow it to continue, uh, because it may be contagious. It may be something that rubs off on other people and gets, you know, causes them to, uh, to fall into the same kind of sin. Uh, you know, gossip is another example. If you allow gossip to continue without uh addressing it, more and more people start to gossip and it becomes a regular event and and pretty soon everybody's gossiping. Um and so when you're aware of it, you need to deal with it, correct that behavior uh so that it doesn't continue and so it doesn't spread. So it's for the the protection of the wholeness and the holiness of the congregation because the Bible says a little leaven leavenvens the whole b the whole lump. And so uh and this is actually the next verse in 1 Corinthians 5 verse 6 says your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavenvens the whole lump? Okay. So, um allowing sin to remain can lev the rest of the congregation and we don't want the rest of the congregation to become contaminated with sin. Um and then so the next thing he says is therefore purge out the old leaven that you may be a new lump since you truly are unleavened for indeed Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us. Okay. So this is um he's using Passover as an example. At Passover, you remove the leaven from your house. You're not supposed to let any leaven remain. Um, and so you go through your house and you clean out all your cabinets, all your pantries, your fridge, your freezer, um, everything. You just you dust for crumbs. You you sweep, you vacuum, you get all the crumbs out of your house. You're not to have any leaven in your house at all when you go into Passover. And that is the way we're supposed to approach sin too is and sin in the congregation especially is that um we're supposed to purge out all the all the leaven purge out all the sin out of our lives individually and out of the congregation and the community as a whole. Um and so we are supposed to be purging sin from our lives. And so when we find sin we're supposed to remove it, deal with it. And so either the sin needs to be removed by repentance and you know them stopping that sin. So they repent and they stop that behavior or it needs to be removed by removing the person. And so that's those are the only options when it comes to to sin is they need to stop the behavior or they need to stop being part of the congregation because the congregation does not need to be leavened with sin. Okay. So that is that is how church discipline helps to protect the holiness of the congregation. Now um not not all um congregations are good at church discipline and they that's something all congregations need to be better at. Um unfortunately many congregations especially nowadays they're more concerned about how many people are there than they are the health of the people who are there. Um, and so they focus on numbers, not on uh transformed lives. And so they're not concerned about rebuking someone for sin. They're concerned they might lose a tither. They're concerned they might lose a financial uh support for the church. And often times the bigger tithers are the ones who are the the most sinful and the ones who need the correction the most. But they think because they write a big check that they can get away with it. That's manipulation. And I would warn pastors and and and uh leaders in churches, don't fall for it. Um if someone is involved in sin, I don't care how big a check they write, they need to be removed from the congregation. And you you just tell them, you know what, um, as Peter told the uh um Simon the sorcerer, uh, you know, he said, he said, you know, Simon the sorcerer was trying to buy um the gift of the Holy Spirit and Peter said, uh, may your may your money perish with you. And so that's the attitude we need to have towards sinners is, I don't want your money. Uh, I don't want your dirty bribe money. Um, you you can't buy your way into heaven. You can't buy your way into this congregation. You can't buy your way into salvation. Um, I don't care how rich you are. Your sin is not welcome here. And because your sin is not welcome here, your money is not welcome here. Um, that's the kind of attitude we need to have towards um, sin in the congregation. And if that means you're you're tight financially for a while, so be it. trust the Lord to provide. Um and and don't trust in in in dirty money, you know, sinful money. Um and and so the next thing I want to talk about is that um church discipline is about upholding the authority of scripture. Okay? If we ignore sin, we are compromising the truth of scripture. So by dealing with sin, by having church discipline, whether that mean rebuking them, correcting them, or possibly even removing them, you are upholding the authority of scripture and saying scripture says this is wrong. This needs to be changed. You need to repent of that behavior or else you need to remove from the congregation. You are upholding the authority of scripture when you do that. And so you're placing scripture on high authority. This is very important. Um, I want to turn to uh let's turn to Titus 3 and I'm going to start in verse 9. Avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and useless. Okay, this setting up some context. Then he says, "Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self- condemned." Okay, so avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law for they are unprofitable and useless. So, this is talking about someone who is who is being divisive and argumentative about scripture. Okay? This isn't um this isn't the same kind of sin. This is a different kind of sin. Now, we're looking at this is someone who is being contentious and striving about scripture. Um they're striving about teaching. They're they're striving about uh theology. They're striving and arguing and debating and disputing with someone in the in the congregation about faith matters and it says that they are a divisive person. Okay? They're causing division in the congregation and you're supposed to reject them after the first and second admonition. So you go to them and you say, "Hey brother, this is wrong. You need to stop arguing about this. this is not something you need to be trying to um do here. This is not welcome here. This type of behavior is divisive and it's not welcome here. And he says you give them, you know, two strikes and you're out. So first and second admonition, you go to them, you you rebuke them and admonish them, correct them. And after you do that twice, you say, "Okay, you're out. You're not welcome here anymore. I've I've warned you. I've warned you again. You're out." It says reject a divisive person after the first and second admonition knowing that such a person is warped and sinning being self- condemned. So they are sinning because of their divisive attitude because they're disputing about foolish things. Okay? They're disputing about genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law. Um and so an example of this might be someone who wants to come into your congregation and so let's say uh someone comes to my congregation grafted church uh we are a Sabbathkeeping congregation we believe the Sabbath is Saturday from Friday sunset till Saturday sunset but then let's say somebody comes into our congregation and they want to argue and and they want to argue the lunar Sabbath and they argue that the Sabbath is not on Saturday the Sabbath is on the seventh 7-day cycle based on the moon. Um, and it resets every month and it's so some months it's on Tuesday and other months it's on Sunday and other months it's on Wednesday. It's all over the place. Okay. Um, that person wants to come and argue and bring contention in the congregation. This is a a situation that has happened. We have had this happen. That's why I'm bringing it up. um go to that person and you say, "Listen, this is not something we're going to argue with you about. We do not agree with you on this. This is what we believe about the Sabbath. If you want to teach otherwise, you can go someplace else. That is not welcome here. That type of teaching, that striving and contention about the law is not welcome here. We're not going to dispute with you about it. We're not going to argue with you about it. If you want to continue this, you can go someplace else. This is not welcome here." Now they have an opportunity. They have a they have a um they have something to consider. They have an opportunity to either uh say, you know what, I will line up with this congregation and I will keep the Sabbath as you guys do and I will walk in line with with what this congregation teaches or I will go someplace else. Those are their two choices. Okay? You say, "We're not going to strive about this. We're not going to argue about this. this is what we believe about the Sabbath and if you think something else you need to go somewhere else because this is not the place for you and that I've actually worded on our website on our beliefs page I've actually worded some things in that way that if you know if you believe this way this is not the congregation for you um you go someplace else um I think in some things I I even say you're not welcome here if this is if this is how you believe you're not welcome here because we're not going to strive with you about this. We're not going to argue with you about this. This is we have a hard stance on this topic and we're not we're not going to argue with you about it. This is what we believe and if you believe otherwise, you either change your belief and line up with us or you go someplace else. Um, and that's what he's talking about here is these disputes and genealologies and contentions and strivings about the law. They're arguing about the Bible within the congregation causing division, causing confusion, causing chaos. This is how church splits happen is someone comes into the congregation and they bring in some contrary teaching, something contrary to what's being taught um in the pulpit and they start teaching other people in the congregation subversively. And so they are subverting people and leading them astray and pulling them out of the faith of the congregation and into some other doctrine. Um these people are sinners. The Bible says they are um they are divisive and it says knowing that such person is warped and sinning. Okay. They are sinning by doing this. By trying to uh teach other people and pull people out of the congregation, teaching them some strange doctrine and pull them away from the congregation. They're sinning in doing so. And they're and what I've seen when this happens is people they're leading other people astray. And so the the duty of the leaders in the congregation is to protect the congregation from these wolves, from these people who want to come in and bring in uh false teachings and controversies and contentions and arguments. Protect the congregation from these people and tell them you're not welcome here. Go someplace else. This is not the place for you. We're not going to argue about this. You just hit the you just hit the road. Okay? That is that is how church discipline protects the congregation. um from division and and contention. And we're going to look at 2 Thessalonians chapter 3 now. And um I want to start in verse 6. But we commend you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition tradition which he received from us. Okay? Someone who is walking contrary to what they were taught um by the leaders, by the by by the elders, by the apostles. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us. For we are not disorderly among you, nor do we eat anyone's bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. Not because we do not have authority to but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us. Okay, so he's talking about leading by example. For even when we were with you, we commanded you this. If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. For even when we were with you, we were commanded, we commanded you this. If anyone will not work, neither shall he. Oh, I just read this one. Now those who are such, we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they w that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note this person, and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. Okay, so this one's interesting. He's saying um that if if someone if people don't work then they don't eat. And so this is talking about someone who is mooching off of the congregation. They're they're being lazy. They're not they're not working. They're not helping. They're not benefiting the community. They're not adding value to the community. They are leeching from the community. Okay. Um this this is something we need to be aware of. There are people who do this. Um they don't bring value to the community. They come to suck everything out of everybody. And so maybe they're coming and they're sucking up everybody's time. Maybe they're coming and they're sucking up everybody's energy by constantly needing something. um they are just a drain on the community and uh or you know maybe they're financially draining the community. They are they're not performing a job. They're they're not working and they're they're they're coming to the church for money and they're saying, "Hey, you know, I need money. Can you help me out?" And they're constantly asking for money from the church. These are a drain on the community. They are not bringing value to the community. they are draining and sucking value out of the community and not replenishing it. Um he says you're supposed to admonish them and correct them, but he says if they don't work, they don't eat. So put them to work. Teach them how to work. Teach them how to labor. Teach them how to do what's right. Teach them how to budget. If they're bad bad with money, teach them how to finance. Teach them how to budget. Teach them how to manage their money better. um so they're not constantly pulling from the church. If they need a job, help them find a job. Teach them that they need to work. Um encourage them to get a job. Um encourage them to get two jobs if necessary. Um help teach them the skills they need so that they can work. um you know, whatever the situation is, but they need to be a productive member of the congregation. Um and so here here is an example of people walking what he what he describes as disorderly. They're not um they're not bringing order to the congregation. They're bringing chaos. They're not adding value. They are removing value. Um, and so those are things to look for as well. And now this type of correction, he says you don't count them as an enemy. So this is not one of those things you kick somebody out of the church for, but you may have to tell them, "Hey, we can't help you anymore. Uh, we can't continue to finance um your laziness." And so we've helped you out a couple times and we can't help you out anymore. You may have to get to the point where you cut them off. And so, you know, they come to you for money and they say, "Okay, yeah, I'll help you out." And they come to you, you know, they come to you this month for money. They say, "Hey, man. I'm I'm short on money. My rent's due. Um, can you help me out?" And you say, "Yeah, we'll help you out." So, you give them some money. And then the next month comes along and they say, "Oh, man. I'm short again. Can you help me out again?" Okay. Now, you're seeing this is a pattern. Well, why? So, the question should be, why are you short on money? We helped you out last month. You shouldn't be short on money. Why are you why why don't you have money? What's this? What's the situation? Um did you lose your job? Did you have unexpected bills? Um you know, was there something that happened that caused you to get behind? You know, what's the situation? Find out what the situation is first. If the situation is just they're bad with money, then you say, "Okay, before we can help you with money anymore, we want to help you with your finances. We want to help you with a budget. We want to help you manage your money so that you're not continually coming for for money each month." uh that may be the type of discipline that's necessary in that situation where you're saying uh you need discipline in your finances so that you are not a burden to the congregation. Um and and I think that is an appropriate type of discipline that needs to take place. And and so you say to them, okay, we will help you, but you have to agree to go through this finance class or you have to agree to let us help you with your budget. let us look at your finances and help you budget. And if they say, "No, we we don't want you to mess with our budget. We don't want you to mess with our finances. We just want a handout." Say, "I'm sorry. We can't do any more handouts. Um we've helped you. And if if you're not willing to let us help you with your discipline and your finances, we cannot be um frivolous with the church's finances." Okay? We are stewards of God's money. We can't just be throwing it away willy-nilly on people who are not responsible with their finances. And so, we want to teach you how to be responsible with your finances. And we're willing to help you financially if we can help you with your finances and help you budget and help you manage your money better. Um, help us step let us help you by stepping in uh and being part of your finances for a little bit so that you can learn to manage your money better. If they are willing to do that, then that's great and say yes, accept this discipline, accept this um correction, accept this teaching and how to manage your your finances better, and you're going to be better for it, and they're going to be better for it. Um, but if they refuse and they say, you know what, I don't I don't want your um financial advice. I just want a handout. Say, okay, well, we can't give you another handout. I I think that that is absolutely okay to do. Um it's not being harsh or mean. Um you are stewards of God's money and you need to be good stewards of God's money. And so the money that comes into the church is to help people, but you have to do it responsibly. And if if that person is not being responsible with the money, then you can't trust them with that money. And so that's that's something that I think we need to all be aware of. Um, okay. And then let's look at first Timothy chapter 5 and uh start verse 19. Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from the except from two or three witnesses. Okay. So this this is important uh because accusations come against those in leadership, elders and deacons and pastors and and people in leadership. There's a lot of times there's accusations that are made. And what we need to be aware of is that sometimes people make accusations just to hurt that person. They don't like them and they're trying to hurt that person. And there may be nothing to it. It may be a false accusation. And so it says, 'Do not receive an accusation against an elder unless there's two or three witnesses. So you need to make sure that two or three people have seen this behavior and can witness to it and verify that it's true. And so you've got to be really careful um when accusing an elder or someone in leadership um about something. Those who are sinning, rebuke in the presence of all that the rest may also fear. Okay. So, um this is uh this is something that we've had to do twice in in the life of our church. And so, we've had two elders that we've had to remove from being elders. And we had to public publicly rebuke them in front of the whole congregation because they were sinning and uh they would not repent of their sin. they would not do anything to reconcile their sin. And so we had to publicly rebuke them and uh remove them from being elders. And it it's not fun. And it doesn't it doesn't go well. Um it both times I've had to do it um it did not go well. Uh the first time it happened when we were early on our church, uh we appointed an elder and um he he said a bunch of stuff against other people in the congregation and was u causing problems and he was speaking ill of me to other people and he was speaking ill of my wife and just causing a lot of division and contention in the congregation. and um I rebuked him for it and I removed him from being an elder and then I announced it to the congregation that he is no longer an elder. Um as a result he left the church. I didn't kick him out of the church. He left the church. Well then um actually fairly recently um within the last six months we had to remove an elder from our congregation and um it was similar kind of situation. Um there was a lot of contention and striving and and um argument that was going on within leadership and how he was acting in leadership and things that were being said was inappropriate. Um, and there were accusations made against us uh from from this person and and his wife accusing uh me and the other elders and and uh pastors of um sin that was not true that we were being accused of sin that we did not do. And uh we tried to bring correction to them. We tried to restore the relationship. We tried to um uh reconcile with them and they refused to reconcile. They refused reconciliation and it got to the point where you know at first he stepped down from being an elder and I said okay well you know that's that's good. Um you know you you recognize that you're no longer fit to be an elder and so you're you're stepping down. I that's that's honorable. I I recognize that. But then as the conver conversation continued on, it just got so bad. The things that they were saying um about us and to us was just just flatout lies. And it got so bad that we thought, you know, it's not even safe for them to be part of the congregation anymore. We can't just let him no longer be an elder. We need to remove them from the congregation. So we actually had to ask them to leave and no longer be part of our congregation. And that was hard. Um, and so when you are disciplining an elder, that is a very serious thing. Um, and you need to make sure that it is done well, done right, done correctly, that there are multiple witnesses to it. And with this situation, we had multiple witnesses and the the witnesses to this situation were actually elders and pastors. Um, and so we had the the entire leadership team was involved in this. And so the other elder um myself um the the associate pastor and the youth pastor were all involved in the process. So we had uh me, an elder, associate pastor and youth pastor. We had four witnesses to this conver conversation um to verify that what was done was inappropriate and not fitting to be an elder. Um and so because we had the a multitude of witnesses to this um we were able to go beyond this verse which says do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. We had four and those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all that the rest may also fear. And so we had to rebuke them publicly in front of the congregation. That was not fun. Um it's not something that I look forward to. It's something I dread when those kind of situations happen. I I hate it. Um, but it's something the Bible says you're supposed to do. And so that's what we did. Um, and it we're we're hoping someday there there can be reconciliation happen and restoration. Um, but so far it hasn't happened yet. Um, now I want to turn to Romans 16 and verse 17. Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. Um, for those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. Okay, this one goes back and kind of ties in with uh what we're looking at earlier in um in Titus. And so it says rejected divisive manath first and second admonition. This one actually kind of goes along with that. So someone who um note those who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine and avoid them. Um and for those who do such things are not serving the Lord but their own belly. And by smooth words and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the simple. Okay. We had a similar situation with a couple of guys in our congregation years ago where um there's this this one guy actually both guys are very smooth with their words. They're very flattering to your face. Um and it's like they they have this um unnatural smile as they're they're lying to your face. um like the Cheshire cat from uh Alice and Wonderland, you know, just just ear to ear grin that kind of gives you the creeps is is kind of how I felt around these guys. Um and uh they were working separate from each other at first and then they kind of found each other and started working together um with each other. But um these these guys were going behind our backs and talking to people and pulling them out of the congregation and and trying to get them involved in their own separate Bible study. Um they were saying bad things about the church and about the leadership. When new people would come to church, they would go and occupy those new people completely. So nobody else could talk to them. They would just occupy their whole time. And then we'd never see those new people again. And so it made me wonder what are they saying to these people that you know they they come once and we never see them again. All they've they've talked to this guy and this guy ran them off is what it appears. Um and so you know I confronted them about this and um you know it was just it was a lot of um flattering speech to deceive people. is is the best way to describe and that's you know that's what the Bible says here is that's the best way to describe what they were doing is they were using flattery to deceive people and to lead them astray. Um and but they it says they these people who do such things don't serve our Lord Jesus because what are they doing? They're pulling people away from the community. They're pulling people away from the congregation and uh causing division in the congregation. Okay. says, "Note those who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you learned and avoid them." So, they're causing offenses and divisions and avoid them. Get get them out of your congregation. Don't fellowship with them. Don't don't talk to them. They are divisive people. Um uh so you know here all this stuff about discipline, all this stuff about kicking people out of the church, all this stuff about um you know rebuking their sin and and correcting their behavior. And some might say, where's the grace? You know, aren't we supposed to be showing grace to people? And I would say absolutely. Yes, we're supposed to give grace. Uh but grace does not excuse sin. Okay, that we give grace for repentance. Grace is there for repentance. And so you rebuke them for their sin and give them the grace to repent. If they don't repent, that's when you say, "Okay, you're out of here." And so I want to look at Romans 6 now. Um, in verse 16, do you not know? Uh, let's see. Is that the one? No, I'm sorry. Verse one. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not. How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Okay. Um, so grace, you know, what should we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may be Grace does not tolerate sin. That's not it's not the purpose of grace. Grace is not to tolerate sin. Um grace allows us to die to sin so that we don't continue in it any longer. Um think about the woman who is caught in the act of adultery. Okay? John chapter 8. um this woman is caught in adultery and they bring her to him and they say, "Hey, this woman's caught in adultery. What do you think we should do?" And well, in this situation, according to the Torah, the man and the woman were both supposed to be brought before the elders. And if they're caught in the act, both of them were caught doing it. So, both of them were supposed to be brought before, but they only brought the woman. And so, they didn't do it according to the Bible. um they just brought the woman. Uh but Yeshua, he he rebukes those who were um trying to condemn her because they didn't do it right. And so he says, "Okay, whoever is without sin cast first stone." And they all kind of wander off one at a time as he's doodling in the dirt. We don't know for sure what is writing, but um you know, it it's interesting to to imagine what it might have been. But you know, here's the thing. Um, after they leave, he turns to the woman and he says, "Uh, where are those who accuse you?" She says, "Nohere." And he says, "Go and leave your life of sin. Go and sin no more. Stop sinning." So he showed her grace by not condemning her for her sin. But then he said, "Stop sinning. Stop doing this behavior. This is not appropriate." Okay? Jesus, leave leave your sin behind you. Go and sin no more. And so he showed her grace in in her not being condemned for her behavior. But the grace was there to allow her to repent and to not do that sin anymore. That was the purpose of it. Okay? And so um discipline is a means of grace. Okay? By disciplining someone, you are showing grace to them. You're giving them an opportunity to repent. You're giving them an opportunity to turn from their sin and to walk in righteousness and holiness. And so, discipline is a means of grace. It is showing grace to someone to rebuke them and to correct them in their behavior so that they will change their behavior. Okay? And this brings us to Hebrews 12 and verse 6. It says, "For whom the Lord loves, he chastens and scourges every son whom he receives." Okay. Um so if if the Lord chasens you, if the Lord re uh corrects you, if the Lord disciplines you, it's because he loves you. is because you're one of his children and he wants better for you just like we discipline our kids. Um we want our kids to grow up to be good people. We want them to be godly people. We want them to walk in holiness. We want them to do what is right. We want them to be good citizens. We don't want them to be lawb breakakers. We don't want them to be criminals. We want them to have good marriages. We don't want them to be home wreckers. Um and so we train up our kids in the word of God. We discipline them. We teach them right from wrong. We correct them when they go wrong. Uh we encourage them when they do right. All that is done because we love them. And it's so that that they will become better. And that's God disciplines us because he loves us and he wants us to be better. And church discipline is the same way. We discipline those in the church because we love them and we want them to be better. And so, um, that's the heart behind this is out of love. Um, all right. So, now, um, going to try to wrap up pretty quick here. I know I'm going over Galatians chapter 6 and verse one. Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself, lest you also be tempted. Okay? So, how we approach these people is important. How we discipline people is important. Um, treat them the way you you would want to be treated if that was you. Okay? If you were the one caught in that sin, how would you want them to approach you? Um, and and think about that as you're talking to them. put yourself in their shoes and say, "Okay, you know, if if I was if that was me, what would I need from the church to cause me to change my ways to repent and to walk in holiness?" You got to think through that process. What would what would I how would I want the church to deal with me so that I would actually change and repent? So that I would put away this bad behavior and no longer do it. And then that's how you should approach that person. Um and so uh that is that is um you know with gentleness, with kindness, with love uh but with firmness and um letting them know the severity of their sin so that they will actually take it to heart and so that actually change. Okay. Um, church discipline should not be self-righteous and it should not be harsh. And so when you come to them, um, come to them knowing that we all sin. We all fall short. All of us have sinned. All of us have fallen short. Um, I'm no better than you. That that should be our attitude. Understand that we we all fall short in different areas. And how would I want someone to approach me if I was in their shoes and approach them in like manner? be gentle, be firm, and be spiritledd. Um, and remember that the goal is always restoration. It's reconciliation, it's repentance, it's healing, it's salvation. Um, okay. And so, um, we are called to be holy people and the the church is called to be a holy people and all of its members individually. So the church as a whole and its members are all supposed to be holy. Um and so holiness isn't just individual. It is communal. It's about the whole congregation. And so discipline is not just individual. It's about the whole congregation. Um and if we love the body of Yeshua, we will not ignore sin inside the body. Okay? We can't ignore sin inside the body. If we love Yeshua, we love the body of Yeshua. We love his people. We can't ignore sin. We have to deal with sin. And so just as we discipline our children because we love them, we also discipline those in the church because we love them. Um and so some some things to consider is are we tolerating things that God hates by allowing sin? Are we tolerating things that God hates? That's we don't want to be in that place. Um, are we are we correcting them in love? We we want to make sure we're doing it in love. And are we willing to confront um to confront sin for the sake of restoration? We need to have that willingness to be willing to confront sin in order to bring restoration, in order to bring reconciliation, in order to bring uh repentance. And so we should never practice discipline um to control people. Okay? Discipline is not about controlling people. Discipline is about honoring the Lord and redeeming those who have fallen. Okay? That is that is what discipline is to do. It's to honor the Lord and to redeem those who have fallen. It is not about control. It's not about dominating. It's not about um being superior or being in charge or being um better than. It's not about being judgmental. It's not about being harsh or unkind or rude. It's about restoration and healing in the body and love and um bringing the community to a to a more biblical uh holiness of what God is expecting of his people. All right. And so now let's talk about next week. All right. So, next week on Let's Talk Biblical, we're going to be tackling a topic that is often misunderstood, misapplied, and ignored altogether. Okay? And this is the topic of biblical headship. And so, what does it mean uh for the husband to be the head of the wife? What is what is the Bible talking about? There's so many misconceptions, misunderstandings about that and false teachings about that. And so we want to dig into what is the Bible actually saying on this topic and how do we apply it? And so we're going to we're going to explore things like the biblical foundation of headship in creation and in biblical covenants. Um we're going to talk about how Yeshua redefineses authority through servant leadership. Uh we're going to talk about what headship looks like in marriage, in family, and in the church. and how rejecting God's design leads to disorder and confusion. Um we we live in a culture that is hostile towards authority and submission. The the the idea of authority and submission are opposed by so many people in the world today. And this is a message that the church needs to understand so that we can walk it out correctly. Um, it's not about lording over people. It's about walking in holiness and order and doing things the way God has designed them to be done. So, join us next week as we open the scriptures. Excuse me. Join us next week as we open the scriptures and rediscover the beauty of biblical headship. Um, it's not it's not control. It is Christlike responsibility. All right, thank you guys and we'll see you next week. Thank you for joining me on Let's Talk Biblical. If you enjoyed this episode, then share it with your friends and keep the conversation going. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss anything. And I look forward to chatting with you again next week. Until next time, keep talking biblical. Shalom.